Posts by Disillusioned JW

32

Date of Adam's "Creation?

by Slidin Fast in

how do jws resolve these conflicting facts.. 1. no matter how you spin it, bible chronology calculates to circa 4000 bc for adam's creation.

i followed the trail many years ago and that's what it adds up to.. 2. the most cursory investigation of any branch of relevant science puts man's habitation on the earth as hugely earlier than that.

it's now so well-proved that anyone disputing it is guilty of wilful ignorance.

The dating of roughly 4,000 BCE (by various researchers of the Bible) for the date of the creation of Adam is based up the Hebrew OT, but based upon the Greek Septuagint Adam was created about 5,500 BCE years (when using an Ussher style method of tabulation). That is because a some of the numbers in the Greek text are larger than those in the Hebrew test. There is strong evidence of the Christians wrote the NT were using the Greek Septuagint Bible as their OT Bible instead of the Hebrew OT Bible.

Furthermore, a number of Bible scholars say that the Hebrew words translated as "son" in our Bibles don't only pertain to sons, but also to grandsons and great-grandsons, and great-great-grandsons (in other words, meaning 'male descendant') - and that thus the chronology of ancestries skips many generations. That then allows for a Bible based dating of the creation of Adam to even about 10,000 BCE to 12,000 BCE!. As a result that interpretation corresponds well with the year modern science says the most recent age ended and also about the time that agriculture began. Furthermore, they make the Bible based date of the creation of Adam a little bit closer to what modern science science says is when our species evolved into existence.

See https://biblearchaeology.org/research/biblical-chronologies/4353-the-case-for-the-septuagints-chronology-in-genesis-5-and-11 and

http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/chronology.html for some ideas along these lines, though those source are not necessarily authoritative. I do not necessarily agree with all that those sources say.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Vanderhaven7, from a scriptural point of view (according to one or more biblical verses) I think you might be correct in saying that Christ began king in the 1st century CE, but what about what Revelation says of Christ to become king in the future for 1000 years.

My recollection is that Christ became king over the Christian congregation in 33 CE, but not king over the entire Earth at time. That is view which long held strong scriptural support to me. Likewise even after I became an atheistic naturalist it still my view that the Bible teaches such (but of course I disbelieve in much of the Bible). Furthermore part of Revelation says that Christ will reign over the Earth at a time in which Satan is in the abyss for 1,000 years, and that that 1,000 period will follow the end of the battle of Armageddon.

What are your thoughts about Revelation in regards to the idea of Christ having become king in 33 CE.

I agree that the WTS has a very poor record of interpreting biblical prophecies (and even other biblical subjects) accurately. I am now really surprised about how small a percentage of the Bible the WTS interprets correctly. For example, I am lately impressed by what Sea Breeze has very recently said (in a topic thread about whether Jesus is Michael the archangel) about the Bible's meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words which are translated as "spirit". I am thus increasingly viewing most of the WTS's literature as mostly disadvantageous. That realization makes it increasingly disappointing to me that I have studied so much of the WTS literature for so long.

68

Prediction of how Watchtower going to be in 5 Years.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

i can see it that watchtower will become an online/tv based group with just con-vention hall$.. field service would be letter writing and phone preaching, door to door is done.. watchtower will have pay to view programs and still ask for donations after all that.. zoom meetings are here to stay.

kingdumb halls will be sold off except for con-vention venues, or need for new ones$.. df'ing will continue.

the craziness will continue.

Disillusioned JW

LongHairGal, I was not offended.

68

Prediction of how Watchtower going to be in 5 Years.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

i can see it that watchtower will become an online/tv based group with just con-vention hall$.. field service would be letter writing and phone preaching, door to door is done.. watchtower will have pay to view programs and still ask for donations after all that.. zoom meetings are here to stay.

kingdumb halls will be sold off except for con-vention venues, or need for new ones$.. df'ing will continue.

the craziness will continue.

Disillusioned JW

luckynedpepper, I don't know what the WTS means by "Meditation Center", only that it was said they are building something which they call a "Meditation Center". We know they are building a "Media Center" and it is said they are now also building a different kind of center.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Regarding Fisherman's claim that "There is zero empirical evidence that 586 is the destruction of Jerusalem -only an interpretation of the Stele which Scholar refuted in previous thread years ago ...." and the idea that "1914 has not been debunked", what about the research by Carl Olof Jonsson? M. James Penton in his Apocalypse Delayed book says that Jonsson "discovered that the society's contention that Jerusalem had fallen to Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in 607 BC was historically, archaeologically, and astronomically indefensible". Notice there is historical and archaeological evidence against the 607 BCE date, not just astronomical evidence from one Stele.

68

Prediction of how Watchtower going to be in 5 Years.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

i can see it that watchtower will become an online/tv based group with just con-vention hall$.. field service would be letter writing and phone preaching, door to door is done.. watchtower will have pay to view programs and still ask for donations after all that.. zoom meetings are here to stay.

kingdumb halls will be sold off except for con-vention venues, or need for new ones$.. df'ing will continue.

the craziness will continue.

Disillusioned JW

A close ex-JW friend of mine said she was told the WT is building a Meditation Center, but I haven't found any information about it on the internet. Do any of you have any information about the WT building a Meditation Center?

26

JULY 15TH STUDY EDITION :"If ever that evil slave..." page 24

by raymond frantz in

box on page 24 of the july 15th titled :"if ever the evil slave....".

jesus has placed the weightiest of responsibilities on the faithful and discreet slave-namely,overseeing the domestics and giving out spiritual food atthe proper time.

jesus knew that those with greater responsibility have greater accountability.

Disillusioned JW

The reason why I brought up timing in regards to the flood of Noah's day is because the Bible records Jesus saying the coming of the Son of Man would come unexpectedly like the flood of Noah's day, yet Genesis specifically mentions 120 years.

25

UFO's or Unidentified Aerial Fenomena....

by mikeflood in

what do you guys think....the topic seems to being on fashion lately.

some in the borg told me one time "of course, they are for real, they could be angels, demons".. .

Disillusioned JW

Though UFOs and Unidentified Aerial Phenomena may be the same thing, there is a distinction in the definition of the terminology. UFO literally means the unidentified phenomena which is thought to be an object (or objects) which is (or are) flying, though upon investigation it might be determined to be something else - such an unusual cloud formation, the planet Venus, or an optical illusion (sometimes caused by a temperature inversion of layers of air). In contrast the terminology of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena does not make the claim that what is seen is flying nor that it is an object. I thus prefer the military's terminology of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena since doesn't make assumptions.

68

Prediction of how Watchtower going to be in 5 Years.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

i can see it that watchtower will become an online/tv based group with just con-vention hall$.. field service would be letter writing and phone preaching, door to door is done.. watchtower will have pay to view programs and still ask for donations after all that.. zoom meetings are here to stay.

kingdumb halls will be sold off except for con-vention venues, or need for new ones$.. df'ing will continue.

the craziness will continue.

Disillusioned JW

LongHairGal, it was not my intention to give the impression that my mom and sister don't care what is being taught, nor that they know almost nothing the religion's teachings. I'm sure they know what the JW doctrines on the core subjects of: no trinity, no hell torment, no immortal soul in humans, the 144,000 anointed ones, faithful and discreet slave, 607 BCE and 1914, great crowd, great tribulation and Armageddon, moral standards, Christ, holy spirit, and more. However I'm sure most JWs including my mom and sister don't know all of the WT's teachings, and I didn't know all the teachings (nor have an interest in all of them) when I was an active JW. The WT has so many teachings it is not possible for more than a tiny percentage of JWs to remember all of the teachings.

I think the WT's talking about loyalty is largely in order for the WT to maintain control over the JWs.

By the way, when I told my mother that the WT and its religion harmed me psychologically she said she doesn't believe it, or that she doesn't see how that could be the case. She doesn't believe the religion is harmful. I told my mom that the WT saying not to question the WT's teachings on doctrines and to avoid literature of certain subjects (including literature critical of the WT), and to not use independent thinking all troubled me. I tried to explain how the WT harmed me, including how it hampered me from learning the truth about evolution.

I also mentioned how the emphasis on meeting attendance and preparation for meetings, and going out in field service, and studying so much WT literature used up a lot of my otherwise free time that I would have enjoyed using in other ways. I also told her that the vast majority of the time I didn't enjoy meeting attendance and field service, and I said that those activities were almost always boring to me.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

When Russell was alive (at least prior to 1915) the timing of the start of war wasn't a problem. That is because Russell taught that the time of the end began in 1799, that Christ's presence began in 1874, and that Christ's rule rule take full sway by October 1914. Thus when the war started in July 14, 1914 that reassured the Bible Students that end of gentile rule was very near. Years before 1914 Russell said (in an issue of the Watchtower or Watch Tower) that the nations of Europe were preparing to start a major war, and Russell said that a massive war between the countries of Europe would take place by 1914. In that regard about the war he made a prediction which came true (though some other aspects which he predicted pertaining to the outcome of the war were incorrect). Rutherford kept those teachings about 1799, 1874, and 1914 for many years. Later the WTS moved the 1799 and 1874 dates (or what was said to have happened in those years) to 1914, thus redefining what 1914 what meant.